254

Feature Request: Add support for PPPoE

many ISPs, including CenturyLink require PPPoE. Without this support, eero cannot be used as a router and only as a bridge. 

294 replies

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    • UnBip
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Same here, with Bell Gigabit Fibre. And PPPoE would be highly appreciated as the ISP modem/router don't have a bridge mode.

      • Oully
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      jhollington Thank you so much, truly appreciate it!  When I think about it, I did try prior to installing the firmware update.  I will give it a try tonight

      • Oully
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      jhollington I was able to get it to work right away.  That said, I had to unplug the gateway to move it and I just can't get it to connect anymore.  It either won't give up the internal private IP or won't connect to internet if it sees the public one.  Unfortunately, it seems to be impacting my wireless speedtests.  Have you had any issues since? Thanks

      • jhollington
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Oully I've had the same problem... It's very persnickety if you try to reconnect it, or even sometimes if it reboots after a software update, and it's hard to figure out what's going on exactly... it seems that once it's "offline" it's impossible to actually manage it from the app, even when you're connected directly to its Wi-Fi. I can't reboot it when it's offline, and in fact I can't even change it to use a static IP, as it refuses to save any settings at all — it's like the app is showing the last known settings but not actually communicating with the Eero, so it's extremely frustrating. 

      I think this may be why it still seems to be showing the old IP address, simply because the Eero app isn't actually reading the new settings — I rebooted my Bell Home Hub, and of course it got a new public IP, and according to its DHCP settings, it's even assigned it to the Eero, but the Eero refuses to connect to the Internet, and the app still shows the old static IP address, so it's hard to tell whether it's the app not showing the new settings or the Eero not actually updating itself with the new DHCP-assigned IP address that the HH3000 handed out. My guess is that it's the first scenario, since I can't save any changes to the configuration either — It seems as though the Eero app doesn't actually want to communicate directly with the Eero over Wi-Fi, but rather expects to work through Eero's cloud servers, so when Eero isn't connected, the app can't actually communicate with it properly. 

      In the end, going through the following steps seems to fix it whenever this does happen:

      1. On the Home Hub 3000, disable Advanced DMZ (you can leave the DMZ on, but uncheck the "Advanced DMZ" on the bottom. Be sure to click "Save" to confirm the change.
      2. Soft Reset the Eero Gateway by pressing the reset button until the LED turns yellow and then releasing it.
      3. When the Eero Gateway comes back, in should get an internal IP on whatever subnet the HH3K is configured to use.
      4. Re-enable "Advanced DMZ" on the HH3K.
      5. Reboot the HH3K (under Advanced->Resets->Restart)
      6. Soft Reset the Eero Gateway again (hold reset until LED turns yellow and release)

      In some cases, simply toggling advanced DMZ off and back on and then soft resetting the Eero makes it come back okay, but not always. The soft reset seems to force the Eero to pick up a new IP address, but it may need to pick up a different one (e.g. step #3) before it can come back to the original public IP. 

      It's a convoluted process, and I have no idea why the Eero needs to go through this, but there's obviously an incompatibility with how the HH3K implements Advanced DMZ and what the Eero gateway wants to see. It's definitely a problem Eero needs to solve, however, as I've used at least five other routers from different brands with the Advanced DMZ feature on the HH3K and never had a problem with any of those.

      One of these days when I have some time to kill, I may do a packet trace on the wire between the Eero Gateway and the HH3K to see if I can figure out what it is that the Eero is looking for in order to formally establish a connection, because it's obviously looking for something that no other router seems to care about.

      As for speed tests, the Eero definitely hampers my download speeds — I get around 600Mbps maximum on my Gigabit Fibe connection — but what's weird is that upload speeds are actually fine at just under 1Gbps (which is what I'd expect considering it's only got a Gigabit Ethernet port). For my purposes, I don't really care as my Wi-Fi speeds aren't going to be any better than that on 802.11ac anyway — even with my 802.11ax Netgear router, only my Wi-Fi 6 capable devices (iPhone 11 Pro Max and 2020 iPad Pro) even got close to those speeds, and that's when they were sitting right next to the router. I've dual-homed my MacBook, with my Wi-Fi connected to the Eero and my Ethernet connection going directly to the Home Hub 3000 so I can ensure maximum download speeds. 

      • jhollington
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      So just to close the loop on my comments above, I finally decided that the frustrations with Bell's "Advanced DMZ" weren't worth the headaches, since even though it's as fine 98% of the time, it was always that 2% that would potentially trip me up.

      So I decided to simply assign the Eero to the "standard" DMZ, effectively creating a double NAT scenario — one where the Eero's "public" IP address is actually assigned by the Bell router on its own private subnet.

      However, for me it's been working flawlessly in that configuration for several weeks now, with no problems at all dealing with routing traffic in and out — inbound Plex Media Server connections are all good, and even FaceTime, Skype, Zoom, and VoIP calls work fine, as do outbound OpenVPN tunnels. Don't get me wrong, double NAT was once a huge PITA, but most of the protocols that once had a problem with it were updated to deal with multiple layers of NAT years ago. To be fair, I've known that for a while, but I"ve also been doing this long enough that I'm still nervous from the "bad old days" of VPN and VoIP/video services that just couldn't cope with it. 

      In fact, the biggest problem with most "double NAT" configurations is that you have to set up port forwarding on two routers if you want to let in inbound services, but that's mitigated by using the normal DMZ feature on the Bell router, since that will automatically forward all inbound traffic to the Eero's private IP address, at which point it doesn't really matter whether it's using a public IP or a "DMZ" private IP.

    • danstratton
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    PPPoE is really needed. Bridge mode is lacking all the eero plus features we paid extra for! Had I known this from the beginning I never would have bought a (3) eero pros. As it is it, eero is way overpriced, and nearly useless for a high speed connection. $500 for 98 Mbps wireless?! May sound fast, but 1/10 of the speed capable?

    • Alan
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Whilst I appreciate  that the UK is a smaller  market than the US, it still has some 30 million households with an internet connection and just 20% of those are with Virgin Media (Cable TV and Broadband) so something like 25 million are likely on a DSL connection requiring support for PPPoE. Why would Eero consciously rule themselves out of such a large market? How they ever developed the firmware that rules out PPPoE is a mystery, but, those of you with a technical bent, would my idea of a Modem + (that is a standalone modem with the additional capability of handling the ISP ID process) work? It seems so simple and would presumably not need major work on the Eero firmware.

    I do also think that Amazon should be more upfront on their UK website, arguably their description might fall foul of our Trades Description laws. If so how embarrassing would that be for what is now their own product?

    • jerrylion
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    seems like without PPPoE my latest investment on eero Pro trio will be a bit of a waste of money since my ISP requires PPPoE connection and I don't want to bridge eero as I understand that would mean to loose a big part of it.

    Can someone please shed some light and help me get the best out of it? my internet is VDSL2 and I have a modem/router combo that can do the PPPoE but then act as a router or I can put this into bridge mode but a separate client most establish the PPPoE connection (that would have to be eero, but yep, it can't).

    I also have an airport extreme, that can do the PPPoE connection, but that would mean cheap modem (in bridge mode) -> Airport Extreme (acting as router 1) and then -> eero (either bridged or double NAT?)

    can someone explain what this double NAT means and what is the issue with it? 

    is the DMZ option a good way to get the best out of eero? (in an scenario with an exiting router)

    can I use my cheap modem as PPPoE client and router and then connect to it the eero (to eliminate the airport extreme out of the picture). Would this result in double NAT "issue?" 

    I am very confused as you can tell, any advice will be appreciated. thanks all.

      • jhollington
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      jerrylion NAT, or Network Address Translation, is what allows multiple devices inside your network to share a single public IP address. In essence, everything on your home network has a different IP — usually something like 192.168.1.x — however your router has one public IP address that the rest of the internet sees. NAT basically translates those internal addresses to the single external address, while keeping an internal table of which addresses are going where so the return traffic from the internet can be mapped back to the proper internal IP addresses. 

      It's a slightly convoluted examples, but you can think of it like the mail room in a large office. When you send out mail from a company, you only put the company's address on it, and it goes out through the mail room, which keeps a log of which pieces of mail went out. When somebody sends a reply, it arrives at the mail room, and they know which desk to deliver it to internally. 

      Double NAT basically just means that this is happening twice. Since the Eero doesn't support PPPoE, it can't get its own public IP address from your DSL router, so it gets a private IP just like any other computer would have gotten directly from that router before you put in the Eero. However, now if you have devices connected to the Eero instead of your main DSL router, they're going to get yet another private IP address, so the Eero has to translate that to its "public" address (which is still a private address on the outer network), and then your DSL router has to translate that again to the real public IP address.

      In practical terms, this adds a small amount of network latency (which is negligible for most people's needs — it's something you'd likely only care about if you're a serious online gamer), but it also makes it harder for certain services to work across both routers. Making VPN connections is probably one of the big challenges with double NAT, but some online games can have issues as well, and it's much more difficult to open ports into your internal network when you want to do things like sharing remote access to your computers. However, for everyday browsing and surfing, it should make no difference at all.

      If you do need to share internal services, you can mitigate some of this by using the standard "DMZ" feature on your main DSL router and pointing it to the IP address of the Eero. This has the effect of taking all inbound traffic and sending it to the Eero. You'll still be using two layers of NAT, so it won't eliminate all of the challenges, but it does mean that things like VoIP services and online games that want to open ports into your network via things like UPnP should be able to work properly, plus if you want to share something like a file server or media server with the outside world, you'll only need to configure the port forwarding on the Eero itself, rather than having to set up port forwarding in both places. 

    • gportela85
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    There are only two options: you can either double NAT or Bridge the Eero router. Im not sure why they will not implement this feature because you can only sign up for the the security+ service if the router is not on bridge mode. Which means they are missing out on the opportunity to make the product more profitable. This has got to be a hardware restriction of sorts otherwise they would have implemented it already as it makes sense financially, or maybe they already have enough cash.. no need to make more.

    • jhollington
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I would really like to see direct PPPoE support as well, as I think it would make things much easier. However, in the absence of this, Eero should really work with major DSL ISPs that rely on PPPoE, like CenturyLink and Bell Fibe to provide customers with detailed instructions for how their various routers and gateways can be optimally configured to work with Eero without PPPoE.

    I realize that Eero can't necessarily cover every possible ISP, but there are some pretty big ones around the world that still use PPPoE, and it would be a big help if customers knew that they had alternatives to the much more limited bridge mode. It appears from this thread that CL offers an advanced DMZ mode, and I know from personal experience that Bell Fibe does the same, as least with their latest Home Hub models. However, these are not things that most Eero customers should be expected to need to figure out for themselves, especially considering that Eero is targeted at customers who want a simple plug-and-play solution. 

    Step-by-step guides for configuring Eero with major PPPoE ISPs would go a long way to making those users more comfortable purchasing and configuring the product without being left scratching their heads or facing the limitations of bridge mode or double-NAT.

    • messenger
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    When Google nest implemented PPPoE on their system was it via a software update or did it come via a hardware update?

      • Alan
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      messenger 

      I do not have the definitive answer for you but my search on the Google Support pages shows that PPPoE is supported on both Google Wifi and its successor Nest. There are queries over the implementation of IPv6 working with PPPoE and Google's response is to say that the issue was fixed by their firmware update in August 2018. The PPPoE setting is available in their apps WAN settings page. It seems that support for PPPoE has been there for some years if not from the outset. 

      However there is some evidence that users have struggled to use IPv6 and PPPoE together, perhaps there are some settings issues on the users' set up. 

    • Toddyfunk
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Any new update on this request?  I see it’s been logged for quite sometime now and this would be very beneficial. I am considering a switch for this feature alone. I’ve loved my Eero but it limits my setup.

      • Alan
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Toddyfunk 

      About a year ago eero support posted this on the thread above: Since PPPoE requires a fundamentally different firmware structure, there are a lot of challenges implementing it into a system like eero. 

      Perhaps they  are still looking at their options but it does not seem a priority for them. Maybe a major firmware update might mean that it would not be backwards compatible. Why they designed the product in this way is a question for the original designers I guess.

      • sjeffries
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Alan 
      I must disagree. The firmware structure does not need to change. The firmware needs the ability to send PPPoE authentication at interval. This standard is rather old and well documented. The only challenge is the willingness to implement the feature. 

      • Alan
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      sjeffries 

      I was only copying and pasting eero's earlier response. I do not know who is right or who is telling us the whole story. All I do know is that, without PPPoE authentication support, set up seems too difficult for the average user and possibly some of eero's features would be lost. So I will not be buying the eero as I wanted (unless of course they do implement the necessary support!).

      • sjeffries
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Alan I agree completely. I am also rather frustrated by lack of support for PPPoE. This has complicated my home solution and made it slow and less reliable. It would be nice if the telephone companies would modernize their authentication infrastructure and deprecate PPPoE, but I that I fear would take an act of God. There are too many telco's around the globe that still require the protocol.

      • Toddyfunk
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Alan honestly. I am not looking for a response from a member. I'm looking for a response from Eero or at the very least add my name to the long list of users looking for this functionality. But it's looking like I just need to migrate to a different router as I doubt anything comes from this old topic...

    • PPFS
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Eero pro 6 is out, does it support PPPoE?

      • soeun
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      PPFS I hope so.  Can someone confirm? I will preorder right away if so.

    • BigValen
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view
    • Merf
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    well i have centurylink fiber and this would be great.. but as i see another top 5 three year old request brushed along

    • user_error
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I am based in the UK where PPPoE is widely used, I recently purchased an Eero setup assuming it would be supported (maybe I should have checked first, but it is supported by almost all competitors and most people are surprised Eero launched in the UK without it).

    I have to run my Eero in bridge mode as a result of this which is a great shame, PPPoE would make a huge different to me, and many other UK customers.

    I'm surprised this still hasn't been implemented 3 years after this feature request was made, I am considering whether or not I should return my Eero as a result.

    • Alan
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I estimate that about 80% of UK broadband users may connect to an ISP that requires PPPoE identification process. As far as I have been unable to ascertain all mainstream broadband routers support PPPoE with one exception, eero. I still believe that eero made a conscious decision not to support PPPoE, but it is odd that they seem not to want to address this issue (and my hopes that a new model ready for Christmas 2020 would support it have seemingly been dashed). If the eero6 did support PPPoE I feel sure that they would have said so by now.

    I think that Amazon are complicit in this as on some products the webpage has a section "We want you to know", for example on the Echo Studio speaker it says that 3D music is only available with their Music HD service. As they do not seem to have anything similar on the eero products maybe you have a case for a refund.

Content aside

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